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Description of the video:

 Promoter skills for me as well, but those aren't nearly as prominent. So throughout  my schooling, when I was a lot younger I had leg braces for a good period of time.  Just to help stabilize my walking, and the way that I moved throughout the world. And then.  as I got older. I didn't need those anymore. Going through college, you know. That wasn't something I really had to focus on as much  because over time they had learned. You know, what worked best for me.  And so  throughout college, I didn't actually need really any accommodations.  I basically created my schedules to the best of my ability, of course.  to make them  more cp-friendly for myself, so to speak.  and  so I didn't necessarily take super early classes. If I knew I had to drive to campus.  That wasn't always avoidable definitely, you know, had its moments, but that was fine.  And  there were times where I would space out when I had classes throughout the week. So when I lived on campus my first year of school.  for example.  I would have 2 or 3 classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, let's say.  and  I would space them out enough to the point where, if they were in 2 separate buildings. I would have enough time after one class  to go, and either  go back to my dorm building for a little bit to prepare for my next class, or.  you know, go to the campus center, do something there, work on homework. What have you?  And then still have plenty of time to walk to wherever my other building was, if I needed to. Thankfully, as I got through  undergrad a bit further and got into more major specific courses.  I primarily stayed in the It Building, so I was able to get a disabled parking pass  to park right next to the building.  for whenever I had classes, and then I could just show up, go to class, do what I needed to do, and go home.  And that ended up working really well for me. especially because a lot of those courses ended up being  a mixture of hybrid. So half of the time I would be in person  one or 2 days out of the week  to go to a 2 or 3 h lecture, and then the rest of my classes would be asynchronous online.  So that's kind of where  that differs for me, I think, compared to  other disabled students or students with disabilities, is  I haven't been a student so far. That's needed a lot of accommodations that others might  want to have. And the same is really true for my professional life.  I work from home. and so there's not really anything that I need in that regard.  But if it were to come up, I know that I could ask for those things and my supervisors, and I would find a way to make them happen as necessary.  2 things stand out to me, Cameron, from from what you've said  one. I'm sure the Aes Office can tell you how many students have disclose their disability or register to disability with the office.  but they can't tell you how many students with disabilities there are on campus. because not every student with a disability chooses to or needs to disclose the the disability. And it sounds like that was the case in your situation.  The other thing  that I think is kind of a cool thing for this campus. I know that that you all that work here will say, Well, no, it's not perfect. It's not, you know. There are physical accessibility issues, etc.  But this concept of universal design creating  built environment with accessibility in mind. So you don't need to have to go back later and retro fit things to to create accommodations for people with disabilities. Sounds like there's some good universal design going on on this campus to where you, as somebody with a physical disability with Cp. Was able to navigate campus successfully  without having.  apart from disability, parking without having to request any specific accommodations.  I might ask.  what was your situation like  in K. 12, and let me maybe preface my question with a little bit  from over the years, working with college students, with disabilities, I would hear horror stories  from students with disabilities, both physical and and non-physical  about what happened to them in K. 12. That  well-meaning people in K. 12 didn't know how to accommodate them. Didn't have the resources in place often segregated  students with disabilities. Who would  be college material would be planning on going to college with with students who would not be going to college. What was your K. 12 experience like as as a young person with a disability?  I think that's a really good question. And I'm so glad that you've asked that. I think that's a great  thing to kind of understand alongside all of my undergraduate experiences.  admittedly, I don't remember a lot of my K 12 experiences as far as earlier years in school. I don't remember exactly how those played out  in terms of my disability, but I know. I believe, throughout elementary school. and  at least part of high school, so really elementary through early high school. I had an Iep  at 1 point. And then, when I was in high school.  I had what was called a 504 plan.  and that because I remember that more. The 504 plan allowed me to  actually have 2 separate lockers in my building at the time, because the building that I was in  in my school district.  I am. So I'll preface this a little bit I'll backtrack  I am also a graduate of Hamilton, Southeastern  and when I was a freshman and freshman in high school. They were still building onto the main high school building.  So I was actually in a previous junior high building. My first year of high school.  and that's where I had 2 different lockers, because one of my classes throughout the day was  on the second floor of the building. And I think if I'm remembering right, I'm pretty sure that was  A biology class, or some sort of a science class that I had. That was on the second floor. and I think before that I was all the way on the other side of the building  for a completely different class. and I knew if I were to go to my  regular walker, so to speak.  to get  things out before different classes, or put things away before different classes, that I wasn't going to make it  in time, because I think there were maybe 5 or 7 min passing periods.  So for me to go from one end of the building to the complete opposite end of the building and upstairs, and get things out of my locker to get to class on time.  That was a bit of a struggle.  But thankfully, you know, all of my teachers were super accommodating with that, and I never had an issue. If I was  slightly late getting to that one class.  because they all knew my situation, and it wasn't a big deal.  so  that would be my most recent  memory in terms of having a physical accommodation for something like that.  Even before that, though I would say throughout my  gym classes in school, I would say that I had accommodations because my gym teachers knew my situation. and they were like, Okay.  you know. Please still do everything else or everything that everyone else rather is doing.  but they didn't make me do it the exact same way. So  I don't know how familiar all of you are with the pacer test.  Do you? Do you know about the piece or dust? Okay, so  if you don't know about the pacer test, that is basically a running exercise where you go from one end of the gym.  or wherever you have your gym class to the complete opposite end of the gym  before  a tone goes off like you have to get there before a certain tone  goes over the loudspeaker, and that's fine.  except I don't run at least not very well. Running is not my forte. And so  that was one area where I knew this was going to be a struggle for me. And so my gem teachers were like, Okay.  you go to the middle of the gem while everyone else goes to the complete opposite side.  And then you go back. And I was like, say less. That's a great plan. And it worked really, really well.  so that is one example of a different sort of accommodation. That wasn't  a real accommodation, if you will like. It wasn't something, I think was documented at the time. I think they just knew.  That's one example of another accommodation I had had  throughout my school years.  And it did. It worked really well as long as I gave my best efforts. That's all that anybody else was concerned with.  I think fully never had any issues with other students in that regard. They all kind of knew my situation. and they were all super, you know, affirming and helpful where need be. So I got very lucky in that department.  I would say. Those are probably 2 of the more prominent examples that I could give for that  solely because I just don't remember enough about the earlier years of school to really give background from that perspective.  Okay, one more question along those lines.  One more unscripted question, sorry, Cameron.  one of the research  studies that I was fortunate to be involved with years ago was a study. It focused specifically on college students who are wheelchair users, but the the broader principle applies on what factors  led them to realize that they were going to go to college. What was involved in their transition to college. And then parents were also included in this study.  and one of the things that that from that study that really still stands out to me.  was parents saying, despite the presence of the disability, it's like no people in our family go to college. All of this students, siblings, went to college. The expectation from day one  was that he was going to go to college.  We're  to the best of your recollection.  Was  that always the expectation for you, Cameron, that that you were going to be? I mean, even though you were receiving an Iep and a 504, that those were always focused on preparing you  for the college track to to go on and get your college degree at some point. It's a long, poorly worded question. I hope you understand where I was getting it.  I think that's a great question, and I'm you know I'm glad that you followed up with that.  I do feel like that, was the expectation that I kind of had with  family, especially with my parents.  Growing up. There wasn't.  I say there wasn't a focus on my disability by my parents, but  I feel like that's not quite the right wording, though I also feel like.  unless you've experienced disability yourself, or have worked closely with disabled people. it may not make as much sense to you.  so I'll try to elaborate. With that I feel like my parents, and really  all of my family.  you know, saw my disability, accepted my disability for what it was, and did  what they needed to do to help me, you know.  be the best version of myself that I could.  But they also didn't  PIN that to me. so they didn't  want to raise me with limits  in my head, so to speak. So in that regard I would say that I wasn't really raised any differently than an able-bodied child. I mean, there were things that definitely  were different about my upbringing than  a typical, able-bodied child's would be  You know I went through all kinds of different physical therapies as a kid I went through Botox treatments as a kid to help my leg muscles.  I wore lake braces up until I was about 12 or 13 years old.  so there were lots of things that they definitely did to help. you know.  aid me in living with a disability, but they definitely didn't put limits on me, and I think  college was a sort of expectation.  Though I think if I hadn't of gone to college, I think they still would have been supportive of that as long as I knew that it was what was right for me.  so I'm really. I'm really glad that you asked that. That was a good question.  Thank you, Cameron. And then. thinking again about your experiences here. and as you look back. what what would you share with faculty and staff  at Iu? Aye. about your experience?  and about more broadly engaging with students, with disabilities, and then the more broad disability community.  So  out of my own experience, I never had any issues personally on campus again, because I didn't really need specific  written accommodations that were through the Aes office.  but I do think that it's really important for faculty and staff to keep in mind that not every  disabled person or person with a disability  as a visible one. not every disabled person that you look at is going to be noticeably  disabled.  and to that effect as well. Not every student is going to need the same accommodations, even if they've got the same disability as another student that you either have.  you know, currently working with you, or one that you've had previously.  It doesn't all work the same for every single person. And I think that that's something that a lot of people are aware of. I think when you say that to people they're like, yeah, that makes sense.  But I feel like it's also something that is really easily forgotten about. At the same time, I think it's really easy for people to  look at disabled people and disabled students.  and just expect that they'll need the same things that everyone else has needed. And that's not always the case. So I think that being willing to foster environments where your students or colleagues  are comfortable enough to disclose their disabilities if they want to and being willing to  really listen to them and hear them out about what they need versus what you think they might need is so critical. because ultimately disabled. People know themselves best.  You can be, as you know.  good, spirited, and is helpful of a person  as you would be in any other situation.  but as able-bodied folks. You won't know a disabled person  like they know themselves. And I think another thing that ties into that a little bit is the fact that accommodation needs can change. Even if you have a student  or a colleague  working alongside you. That's previously had one set of accommodations that comes back  the following year, and is like, Hey, I actually need  these other 3 things on top of my previous accommodations. And you're like, Whoa!  Those weren't there before.  Maybe things have changed. Maybe they've realized in the span of time, you know, between academic years that they need something different.  and sometimes it really takes trial and error with that sort of a thing. Sometimes you don't know whether or not you need an accommodation  until you've sat with and experienced it, you know. You might think.  Oh, maybe I want to have an accommodation where I can get more time added on to my  testing windows to take an exam.  Maybe you think that's something you need. But then you go and you start taking exams throughout the year. And you're fine. And you're like, Oh, actually, I don't need that as much as I thought I did. Things can change.  So I think, being able to be open and be fluid with  your colleagues and students, and just being willing to hear about what they need without  assuming first is so critical. And I think the more that people are willing to be  open about that with their students, whether they've personally experienced disability or not. Will ultimately  helped foster areas where everybody's comfortable to bring things up as need be  because much like you, said Larry. There hasn't been a time in my personal college experience where I felt like I had to disclose  having CPU, but  that also made it a really nice thing, because if there was a point where I wanted to disclose my having Cp. Even if it was just for the purposes of bringing up something relatable  in a class. I knew that I could. So I think, being able to have an open mind about those things, and just be willing to hear how what a student or a colleague has to say to you about their disability  is so critical to making them feel welcomed and heard and really seek.  I think that's something that does a lot for people.  and  I know as well that asking for those things can be really challenging. It might take a student or a colleague a lot to go to you and be like, Hey, I would like to have this accommodation.  Even if they are relatively open about their disability, it can be a challenge to  except the help for that.  Sometimes.  because I know a lot of disabled folks, myself included.  sort of have. or can have.  a sense of hyper independence  where  you know, if you're raised by people and around people that  acknowledge your disability. But don't  you know, keep it as a pinned label, a defining factor of who you are?  then it can be really easy to just think, oh, I can do this.  but with everything.  And that's not necessarily untrue. But it's also not entirely true, either, because sometimes you do need help doing different things.  and much like I said a couple of moments ago.  your ability to do things can change as you age with a disability, and I think  being open to being receptive of that as well, and trying to keep an open mind with professors, colleagues, you name it  with that in mind is also helpful. I think there has to be openness on both sides.  Or at least a willingness to be open on both sides to really make  that sort of a situation work  is that is that sort of the answer that you were looking for. Do you think  that's a much more thoughtful answer than anything I could have envisioned. Thank you, Cameron, that that really was  fantastic, and as you were describing that and the  level of trust  that it takes for a student to have that kind of conversation with a faculty or staff member.  I just think, and how discouraging it is when you've mustered up that courage to have the conversation to go and then be shut down.  which we know unfortunately happens, and and that may.  Students may not be receiving accommodations they need, because they they reached out at 1 point and and brushed aside by someone and fortunately, that wasn't the case for you. Ii really appreciate that answer, and a quick follow up.  you're describing very much  your disability, and I've heard you use language person with a disability disabled person. And and and we hear person first language, some we hear identity. First language, some  sorry to kind of put you on the spot here. This is off script as well. But as you've used those terms interchangeably, I guess I would just be curious as to your thoughts on language  with disability, your perspective as a person with a disability disabled person as well.  So I think that's a wonderful offshoot.  and I was going to touch on that, anyway. So I'm glad that you asked.  the difference in choosing  person first versus  I'll say diagnosis first language, because not everybody holds their disability as an identity. Some do. For some people.  A disability is very much a big part of who they are.  And that's wonderful. I'm very much that same way.  Because Cp is not leaving. It is here to say  so you know, from that perspective I choose to embrace it. And I think  you know again, that's something that just varies from person to person. And  ultimately it's best to just ask  if somebody is  willing to disclose a disability to you.  it's better to ask, do you prefer person first, or diagnosis? First, identity, first, language  versus making the assumption that they prefer one or the other based on how they might talk about their disability. And  and that's why I've sort of used both interchangeably is because I know people listening probably have heard or seen both in regards to disabled people.  And it can really go either way. But it's just personal preference.  For myself.  I feel like I've  experienced a lot of time, especially  in  childhood. K. 12, sort of.  you know, time frame where  my identity as a disabled person wasn't focused on  in my general day-to-day life so much that I sort of framed being disabled as a bad thing.  and that's not quite the right wording I feel like, but I know that there's a lot of  negativity  surrounding the word disabled like people here. You're disabled, and they're like, Oh, my gosh!  Like, what do you mean? You know, people are like, Wow! That's such a strong word. And it's like.  no, not really, at least not for me. It's not. And I think  that's something where  I wasn't super pressed either way about the language used for me growing up. But then.  you know, going into college, and really sort of figuring  more of myself as a person out.  that made me realize that it was okay to call my myself disabled  whereas previously I hadn't really felt that way, because of all of the stigma and sort of negativities that come  with that ultimately. Still, today, I don't really mind.  You know what somebody uses for me in passing, but I don't want people  to be afraid of calling me disabled and of acknowledging my Cpa because ultimately, even though it is mild and doesn't currently affect  as many of my day-to-day things as somebody else's Cp. Or other disability might  like. I'm stuck with it. It's gonna be with me forever. I might as well. you know, lean into that where I wasn't doing so, or wasn't maybe  quote unquote, able to do so  as a younger person.  ultimately, though, for everybody else, just ask  if somebody is open enough and willing enough to tell you about their disability experiences.  The best thing you can do is just to be open and just see what they want.  It's not about what you want, and that's I know that sounds harsh.  But it's really not something that you can take personally. It's ultimately down to what the person with a disability.  once for themselves.  and that should just be what you proceed with.  I mean, if you're you would want to make somebody comfortable.  you know whether they're disabled or not.  and that's one way that you can do that is by asking what they prefer.  And going from there.  Well, said my friend, well, said  little bit about the ferry box center. So I'm I'm the director of this thing called the Gregory S. Ferry Box Center. We're headquartered just down the street from here at Eskanasi. Health  named for a guy named Greg Ferrybach. Obviously, Greg is a pretty prominent attorney person with a disability here in Indianapolis.  Very well connected fellow. He's currently the chair of the United States Access Board, which is a Presidential appointment. The top governing body for Ada regulations. Years ago Greg's Ball State alarm was on ball States Board of Trustees, which is a appointment by the Governor, is also on the board for that oversees Eskinazi mayoral appointment, so they've been appointed by lots of public figures.  maybe 15 years ago, in my time at ball state as director of the Disability program there.  Greg asked me a pretty profound question. said, How come? I never see other people with disabilities in leadership positions, boards, etc.  Then the follow-up question, what are we gonna do about it.  Okay, we did. A lot of ball state has a lot of students with physical disabilities which we somewhat broadly define as mobility related orthopedic, visual and hearing  ball state, long history, lots of students with physical disabilities, lots of alums. We talked to several alums after Greg's questions and current students.  and found out. Unfortunately, too many of our alums with physical disabilities  were not equitably employed after graduation.  and so in talking to them, we're trying to find out why there's a lot of reasons why  one of the reasons was too often our ball state students weren't doing internships.  Internships are great. You're critical for everybody.  Let's the student gain that real world work, experience. Give him her them the confidence that they can do the work after graduate. All that good stuff that comes from an internship  internship is also for the person with a disability. It shows that perspective employer  that the student can do the job. They've done the job in an internship that that employer might be thinking stereotypes biases about the person with a disability, but they see that work experience through an internship that may offset some of those things.  So we start this little internship program using fairybox connections with one ball state student 1012 years ago  at Escon health full time paid internship  it. It took. Escanazi asked us to send a few students the next year, a few more the next year, etc., etc., grew to the point where Eskanazi asked me and my colleague, Carlos Taylor, if we had leave ball State. Come.  you know, expand this thing. Start recruiting students from other colleges and universities, and bring on other employers to host students. So we now recruit students with physical disabilities from across the Midwest.  bring them here to Indianapolis for internships and positions related to their academic majors their career goals  for people that come from outside the Indianapolis area. We house them. I'm pointing behind me down the street at at the river walk apartments. Here. We do a bunch of professional development for interns, lots of networking, etc. The goal behind everything that we do at the ferry box center is to make sure, really talented students with physical disabilities  get the experiences they need, so that they become great candidates for equitable employment after graduation. We've had now  200 students intern through our program. Those 200 students have done over 400 internships students can intern with us multiple times. We've had 40, some different colleges in the program. Send us students. We've had over 40 employers, host interns from the program. So  most on site, some hybrid, some remote. We'll do whatever we can to get the student a good paid work experience through an internship. So that's a not a little bit. That's more than a little bit about who we are and what we do.  But that sets up my next question to you, Cameron.  So would you mind talking to us a little bit about one, how you got connected with us. and and 2 the types of internship, the the internships that you did through the ferrybox center.  Absolutely. So. I found the farebox center in my  junior year of undergrad. And it was basically like a stroke of luck, almost  I had been looking around for all kinds of internship opportunities.  throughout my sophomore year, going into my junior year.  and I edible hide to one or 2 here and there. But I got rejected, and I was like, I really wonder if there's something specific for  disabled people to enter through, because I know that there's scholarships. I know that there's different.  you know, avenues for all kinds of college related  experiences.  That are specifically tailored for  disabled folks. And so I was roaming around the Internet and just happen to assemble up on the Fairbox center. And I was like, Oh, that looks really interesting. And then I saw that it was specifically for  students with disabilities. And I was like. Sign me up  and so I  you know, I went ahead. I looked at all of their criteria and things that they needed.  and I decided to give it a shot, and I sent in an application.  and then, I think. not long after that I think I met with Ewan Carlos. To sort of do a vetting interview to see if the program would be a good fit for me.  And sure enough, you both took me on  and then I,  you know, proceeded to start with you all that June. So that would have been June of 2021.  I want to say that we did our initial interview. Get to know. You see, if I was a good fit  conversation, I think that was probably in the February  and then I want to say it was probably end of the month early March that you guys were like, yeah, we'll take you on  And so that's that's how I got started with the center  and since then.  after that initial internship in summer of 21,  I then had a follow-up internship in my current department at work.  That fall. That was.  I believe it was September through just after Thanksgiving.  and then I took about a month break, and then I interned with them again.  In the following January until Maine. Or no. that would have been January until  August. Actually, it was So I guess it's 3 internships in total that I've done just one really extended internship.  and  so that's that's all of my experience with the Fairbox center. I think it's a wonderful program. I think you and Carlos do  incredible work. I know all of the interns do incredible work because I see them.  And I'm still connected with a lot of my fellow interns from my first internship. I'm still really good friends with a lot of people. and it's just. It's been a great great opportunity. I'm glad that something like that  exists, and I'm glad that  you know you and Carlos and Greg, and everyone else that you work alongside has chosen and dedicated yourselves to  taking chances on disabled people.  because a lot of people  and organizations still, today, no matter how open-minded and friendly they may be. aren't necessarily like that. So I think it's so  incredible and so wonderful that you all have sort of fostered this environment where  you know, as you've said, students can go and gain that meaningful experience to then gain  even more meaningful experience in their professional lives after graduation. I truly think that's.  you know, this program is something that's been the first of its kind that I've ever seen.  Whether or not that's true I don't know, but I'd like to think it is. it exactly. I know, at least for the Midwest. That's likely true. And I think that's something  that is truly just so  wonderful and impactful and  necessary.  because I think outside of that program, for you know.  regular internship experiences. I feel like it's really easy for disabled students to feel like  they can't go for those things, whereas  through this program  you're showing them, you can go for these things, and you can be successful at them. And while we're at it, we'll connect you to all of these other people that can help you get to different areas.  Should you want those opportunities. And I think that's huge.  So I mean props to all of you. It's it's really  amazing work that you do. And I know you're all very busy people.  and I'm I'm ultimately just very grateful for all of the work that you all put in. It definitely  does not go unnoticed by myself or really any of the other interns I would like to say.  you know, you all do very impactful and wonderful work, and I think it's really necessary. And I think you do a great job of it.  Thank you, Cameron. That's very kind of you to say, and I would  just added privilege for us to have you affiliated with our program, and I think you all can can see and hear why. Natalie, I think we are probably at our time limit.  Maybe if I could  ask you to take it and see if you need more questions for us.  we are. We started a little bit late, so I do want to give us just a few minutes for some questions, and I'm happy to pass the microphone to anyone in the room.  And those of you on chat, too. Please feel free to type in a question, and I'll pass the mic. Do you have a question in the back.  Cameron? I wrote down. I wrote down a question  earlier.  but you mentioned you mentioned that you had a positive experience during K through 12, and  when you.  When the excerpts, the the teacher made the modification for the pacers test.  I had a question if you had any positive exercise interventions while attending the university, and if so.  Were they challenging enough for you  to  improve your your physical abilities or your goals?  Thank you for that. I think that's a really great question.  Ultimately, I am not an athlete. I never have been an athlete.  so admittedly, I didn't really get involved with anything like that while I was in college.  that just wasn't something that I needed.  you know, degree requirement-wise.  and it just wasn't something that I had really thought about.  But I do think  with how the campus is set up. Being able to walk pretty much everywhere  was really beneficial.  I think that's something  that can be really easily taken for granted  in an area like this. Being able to walk, you know, to wherever you need to be, and not necessarily have to  rely on driving yourself around campus.  I think that's you know, huge  and I think especially because this is a bit of a smaller university campus. That makes it a bit easier to have that  But ultimately, outside of that, I didn't really have anything in college specifically  I wish I could give you a different answer. But that just wasn't something that I got into.  We have a question on Zoom from Bailey. How do we get in touch with the program to apply. Are there any certain deadlines? And is the program open to graduate students?  I guess this one's for me. So students apply for the program by the end of January every year, and as Cameron mentioned, the the staff of the Center then do interviews over zoom  with each applicant. We had 97 applicants this this year for for summer internships, which is awesome. And this university sent us the most applicants this year. So thank you. We recruit.  I mean word of mouth. But  the primary means for us in recruiting is working with each campus's Aes office.  Because those are the staff members who, for the most part, I guess Cameron, as an exception, know who the students with disabilities are who would qualify for our program.  So yeah, that's the application process. So we focus on summer internships.  because, you know, students are more available in the summer, we've got access to the housing in the summer. We do all the professional development in the summer, but having said that we do offer some fall and or spring internships, it's usually a much lower number. We had 63 in our summer program last year. We'll have 5 to 10 students intern with us in the fall and spring.  So  we do accept grad students. We've had several grad students in the program. So if you would be interested  in a fall internship with us, I would say, touch base with us  at some point.  You know, by the end of June, if you'd be interested in an internship next summer in in the larger cohort again, that application would come to us by the end of January.  Natalie, I might ask if you wouldn't mind sending out our contact information afterwards. Just so can follow up with any individual direct questions you might have for us.  Absolutely.  So, Larry, do you have a certain number of students that you accept yearly into the program.  No, we'll  so we'll try to find  an internship for as many students as we can. I mean, not. Everybody is ready for a professional internship. So of the 97 that applied, you know, after having a conversation with them.  you know, maybe 15 or so aren't quite ready. But, gosh! For the other 80  or so we're in the process. Now we're gonna try to try to make it work for as many different students as we can. And it's gonna be a good mix of on site internships, some remote. We'll even have a few students who are Ferrybach interns who are doing their internship  outside of Indianapolis. So Commons is one of our employer partners. Commons is headquartered in Columbus, Indiana. We'll have a ferry box center intern down in Columbus.  My old office in in Munsey, at ball State, the disability office. There is gonna host an intern from the program this summer. So  we're gonna try to bring as many people to Indianapolis as we can. But we only have a certain number of spots available in in housing and such. So there's a lot of logistics involved. But long answer Mercedes, to say that we're gonna try to  try to get as many as we can. I'm guessing. We'll have 70 or so in the program this summer. They're great great book. It's  the industry that knew those relationships, are they?  Yeah, that's such a great question. How do we connect with various industries and other partners? A lot of it's word of mouth. So Eli Lilly is is one of our strongest partners.  Lilly looks at us  to be their recruiter  for students with disabilities. Lily Yay sees disability as a critical piece of their Dei efforts, and  when when Lily came to us the said, How come? We don't see students with disabilities when we come to campus to recruit?  Well, oftentimes there's lots of barriers for students with disabilities, with typical recruiting efforts on campus career. Fairs are awful for lots of people.  especially for students with a variety of different types of disabilities. So a lot of its word of mouth. Lily has been such a great promoter of our program. Lily hosted a conference for other employers in the area. To introduce our program to them. And so that's how we got commons on board, and and some others as well. So word of mouth. And then some of it is  okay. We got an intern. This is what they want to do for an internship. We don't have somebody in that an employer who does that kind of thing? We'll go out and ask, we'll say, Hey, here's who we are. Here's what we do.  Would you mind hosting an intern. So a variety of different ways for us to get at at. The employers  want to be mindful and respectful of everyone's time. It's 11. 8. So let's end at 1110, and I think we have time for about one more question.  Anyone in the room or on Zoom.  Now there is a question in the chat about, do you have any fall internship opportunities?  Certainly, if if interested in fall, I would say, just touch base with us, maybe by the end of June. You know, for fall internships we don't provide housing. We don't do all the professional development, but our fall and spring internships are are the work, experience. The paid work experience. So we'll have 5 or so interns in the fall. So if you're interested.  Natalie will tell you how to get in touch with us. We'd love to have a conversation with you.  Well, let's have a round of applause for Cameron and Larry today.  We will be sending out a survey to all of those of you who've signed up on our sign-in sheet in our participating via Zoom. So please take the time to fill out the the survey. Additionally and we'll be sending a email with some information on how you can get in touch with Larry, if you have any further questions about interning with him and his team in the in the summer, fall or spring.  so thank you all and enjoy the rest of your day. We have another  event this afternoon. With our graduate students and professional students. Right here in this room at 10'clock, so please feel free to come back. Get some coffee and join us for discussion. Thank you.  Making yourself available  panels and conversation. That's better than the voices with disabilities program.

Description of the video:

Description of the video:

Description of the video:

 So I went to the flag of my yard of my yard  number that has a big house, and it seems that I'm not.  But I made it. That's good, only modeled once while I was working only once, coming in. So that's good. That's my chance. So much  so much better. We haven't been able to stop him to pricing.  Okay, we'll get started, so we will  have sufficient enough time for Miller to share in person with us.  So thank you. My name is Mercedes Cannon, and I'm the director of accessible educational services. So welcome and thank you for coming out  today. We're going to continue to go beyond awareness. As we talk about equity stories.  so in this session we will learn about the support of 2 faculty members at Iu Indianapolis and ensuring access.  advocacy and educational growth across campus.  This informational session I'll highlight the storytelling of Dr. Kathleen Morris and Dr. Sharon Miller as they talk about working with Aes and disabled students and students with disabilities.  how they have contributed to the access as  campus community members.  So first of all, I'm gonna read Dr. Mars, bio and Dr. Miller's bio. We're gonna watch Dr. Mars video. She's not. She wasn't able to be with us today. She's at a conference in DC.  And then Dr. Miller will speak to us in person. Take a few questions, and the day will end. So give me a few minutes to tell you about Dr. Mars.  who is a professor of biology at the School of Science at IUPY.  And she teaches introductory biology annually for about 800 science Majors  and honors, introductory biology.  He teaches a project-based microbiology lab for upper level students.  and it's part of an interdisciplinary, Senior Research capstone course  colleagues in biology.  He also team teaches in several interdisciplinary themed learning communities or shares, seminars with colleagues from chemistry, and there are science and biomedical engineering.  Her research has focused on a range of educational initiatives.  Okay, through 12 outreach  undergraduate education  graduate education and teacher preparation  funded through several National Science Foundation programs.  She was selected for the Advocate for equity, accessibility, award from the Iupui diversity, equity, and inclusion.  In October of 2022  for her work to ensure that students and facilities enjoy.  Then we have Dr. Sharon Miller, who is currently an assistant, finds provost for Purdue University in Indianapolis.  providing leadership for Purdue and Indianapolis that focus on correctional and the student experience.  Dr. Miller received a Bachelors of Science Degree in Material Science and engineering from Purdue University, West, Lafayette, Indiana.  and a Master's of Science, and Ph. D. Degrees in Biomedical engineering, the University of Michigan.  Ann. Arbor.  Most recently she served the Iupui, BME. Department as associate chair  Director of the undergraduate program  have been developed  implement and assess curricular changes and embedded engineering design.  ethics and technical communication  in the Biomedical curriculum  her grant funded engineering education work has been supported by the National Science Foundation.  the National Institute of Health  and the Office of Naval research.  In addition to many internal seed awards.  this scholarship of teaching and learning and engineering education focuses on learning, undergraduate student self advocacy relates to design achievement.  Dr. Miller enjoys teaching, advising, and mentoring students.  and has been awarded the outstanding materials. Engineer  2024, Iupui advocate for accessibility and equity. Award 2023, and the Iepu, I trustees teaching award 2022.  The IUPU. I. Wisner  boats  Outstanding Faculty. Award 2021, and the Jaguar Academic Advising Association, Faculty Advisor of the year 2020,  and the Aurora University mark and markets. Trumbo excellence in teaching award 2015  effective coaching  senior Capstone design teams have led to local and national design student awards, such as the NIH.  Then they chore with all the bulk.  and IH. Vedore well. The view award in her creative leadership has forged opportunities for students to connect  several Indianapolis. Companies and resources, including the Iu School of Medicine and the Iu health 3D innovation lab.  Thank you.  Alright. So we're gonna start with Dr. Martin, and then we'll hear from John.  Good afternoon, everyone. I'm delighted to be here today to share my experience as a faculty member. My name is Kathy Mars. I'm a professor in biology, and I teach a large enrollment biology, class biology. K. 101. I learn more every semester about fostering an accessible and inclusive classroom, thanks to the work of Aes and our students. While I can't be here in person, I'd like to take a few minutes to share about my engagement with students in my biology class.  So over part one over the course of my time on campus. It's been my privilege to have taught over 15,000 students. I've worked with a diverse range of students in lecture hall classrooms. But here I'd like to focus on the biology labs a space requiring the most creativity in ensuring accessibility.  So biology labs usually require active participation, using microscopes to see images following detailed protocols and procedures where each step is important, often transferring liquids or other materials into test tubes and looking for color changes that are usually an indication of a positive reaction, and then also doing this under appropriate lab safety considerations. So this presents a number of  considerations to make sure that the labs are accessible to all, one is making sure that the bench space is configured  in a lab like this. The lab. The the bench is where the work takes place. So while our current K 101 lab is far more accessible than most  in multiple semesters. We've made sure to configure the lab tables to enhance accessibility for individual students ensuring a greater ability to participate. We've also introduced tactile materials for blind students lab work can really pose a challenge for blind and visually impaired students working with Aes and one of our blind students, we were able to incorporate multiple tactile materials into lab to facilitate learning again, broadening how students could engage fully with lab activities.  And then often in semesters, we've had interpreters. So students who are deaf or hearing impaired can fully participate in lab discussions.  understand instructions, and interact with their peers and instructors and instructors by working through interpreters. So this again ensures. All students have access to the same information and success in lab processes.  Now, a second example I'll mention is more specific. And this is a student I worked with as as a student and then as an undergraduate. Ta. So this student is a disabled student who uses a wheelchair now we, when she was a student in class, we made sure to configure the lab bench to make sure that she could excel in the lab which she did, and but beyond that I learned a lot from working with her.  So she approached me about doing an honors project on disability justice. She let me know very directly that some of the links I had highlighted in K. 101 course material were out of date.  Through her project we discussed crucial topics, such as identity, first versus person, first language. I was familiar with person first language, but I had not realized how important identity first language was for many people. Our discussions and work on her honors project not only enriched my understanding of disability, justice.  but by incorporating her project into the K. 101 curriculum as a canvas module has also enriched the knowledge and awareness for students and teaching assistance, creating a ripple effect of increased awareness and understanding. And then, finally, this student returned to K. 101. This past fall semester to become an undergraduate ta, assisting the weekly lab and helping a future generation of students succeed in the class.  Alright, I'd like to now take a moment to just say how, when advocacy became a real catalyst for positive change. A little over a year ago I was awarded from the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Division, the advocate for Equity award, and this was a real honor in my career, and it came from identifying a gap  while serving for a year in the Iepui Honors College. I realized that the the large glass entry door lacked a push button opening to to allow that door to open for all. So we worked to install a push button accessible door, so that all students, regardless of physical abilities, could access the honors. College space seamlessly, and students and visitors had equal access.  And I'll conclude by a part 3 is mobilizing for change, and I just like to mention a few things about the future. Now we know there's still work to be done to ensure that accessible design is integrated into science and engineering lab construction and across university classes.  So I feel that by sharing our experiences as we are today with faculty staff and students, we are fostering an environment where we work together to implement accessible practices across departments, across schools and raise awareness to empower the community to make informed decisions that positively impact everyone.  I see 3 trends on the horizon. One is increased awareness and advocacy. So more campus architects, faculty members. Administrators and students recognize the importance of inclusive design and are actively advocating for its implementation.  Technological advances, assistive technologies, online learning platforms like canvas with built-in accessibility, features all break down barriers and create a more inclusive classroom. And then, finally, policy and regulation change. There's been a notable shift towards stronger policies and regulations that promote accessibility and education.  I have long felt that our campus has been proactive in dedication to comply with and exceed accessibility standards driving forward the implementation of accessible design.  In closing, I want to express my heartfelt appreciation for the incredible work being done by Aes from the director and staff to the students involved. Your dedication and commitment to fostering accessibility and inclusion on campus are commendable, together with the support of our campus community, we will continue to mobilize for change and create a more inclusive future for all. Thank you.  Awesome. I wish she was here. We could ask questions, but we're gonna just transition right into  driller, who is very familiar  with Dr. Mars, and  excellent. Well, welcome, everyone. Thank you for taking the time today to come here and myself.  Here are some of our experiences. What's really neat is, Dr. Mars gets to teach biomedical engineering is, in addition to other students on campus and my background and biomedical engineering overlaps with her. So I often hear all the great work that Dr. Mars does when the students come into our program, and they also speak volumes of how she not only is aware of promoting accessibility for all, but  in in the classroom, like she just explained in the Biology lab, but also experiences so many, many students have crossed. You know my path, have in the chairs in my office and shared how Dr. Mars has gotten them to research with a specific research faculty member as well. So  I'm honored to share the stage with her today and share a little bit about my journey and  additionally express my thanks to Aes for for this honor  apui in general. So I know. Mercedes gave me a a nice sort of template to sort of think through as I. I approached this and and join you today. And so I just kind of wanted to start from the top.  Dr. Mars jumped right into biology lab. And I'm gonna start a little bit more broad and just share my experiences to date as an educator. And some of the things that I learned were  having students with disabilities in my class sort of cross my path.  So I I've been in higher Ed as an educator for over 15 years.  and one of the the neat things that I think I bring to the classroom is that I have taught at a community college.  small private Liberal Arts College, outside Chicago.  Iepu, I. And now transitioning to Purdue, which is, you know.  even larger schools. So I really have experiences through large institutions, but going through  as an educator in the classroom, seeing all the different types of places that our students either  start and finish their their pursuits academically, or transition from community, college to Ibui, or the like. So all these bases I have to say barn on the iepui has given me the most resource for my  inviting different ways and perspectives to helping all students, not just students, with disabilities that cross our classroom classroom. So I'm thankful. I Api. For that  my discipline, my training, is in biomedical engineering, and and Dr. Canon also mentioned, my undergraduate was in material science engineering. So I I definitely got involved in that, because I was really intrigued on how, how things actually break, which is, you know, not necessarily something here every day. So I was in definitely in the discipline of learning how how stuff breaks, and I still am fascinated with that. But after  my education at Purdue I really wanted to learn how things, how, how we can repair the body so like taking my knowledge from how things break, and then how we can fix the body. And so I did a lot of my masters and Phd. And even my post doctoral work was was in areas where I was investigating materials that definitely help.  How do you regrow things in ways that so that we can again? So it's, it's really an interesting parallel, because I've used a lot of those skills in the classroom. And now I definitely engage in hearing education in a way to further my academic pursuits. In addition to learning how our students learn in the classroom.  And so when I came to I Apu, I started in the Biomedical Engineering Department. I'm still in the Biomedical engineering department, and I I have the pleasure and the privilege of of teaching really, fabulous students, many of which come to our classrooms meeting adaptive education services. Some do not, and some do. And so it's been really eye opening to learn from the student that might need extended test time. Taking  to the student that might need a notetaker in class, and I was glad to hear in Dr. Mars this presentation she was mentioning, you know. Maybe  filter accessibility in her lab, etc. So there are a myriad of reasons why a student might come into our classrooms needing assistance for  ensuring that they have access to all of the material within the class, so that everyone can learn.  And and we also have in a Bme department visually impaired blind student. And so that was really where my journey began within the Bme department, and personally, you know.  creating these eye, opening moments, not just for myself, but for my peers and colleagues around.  I wanted to, you know, hang there for a little bit longer. So you know, definitely like I mentioned over the years, had a a variety of students with different needs, but specifically you know the visually impaired student that we have in our program now gave me the opportunity  to connect with a couple of folks. And so.  first first of all.  as an advisor.  talking with a student and understanding their needs was was probably one of the most impactful conversations at the beginning, learning.  you know what the student needed within the program  but then, navigating the educational support systems that Iepui has, so that we can  accessibility for not just the student, but all blind or visually impaired students within a difficult engineering  curriculum.  Biology lab presents. It's Dr. Mars talked about microscopes and seeing images, etc, even for some folks that were in her classrooms and in in engineering. We do use microscopes in Vme. We also have a lot of software.  And we're we're definitely a math, heavy field, as you're probably well aware. And so you know, in initial conversations with with that, our students, understanding how equations become accessible, for all was really eye opening. And so, you know, first talking with the student, then recognizing there was, there's an entity on campus that provides support.  Students in general that that have accessibility needs  the next sort of layer that sort of expanded. My vantage point was working with  peers. My faculty peers within the department.  And so it was clear from the beginning that there was not necessarily one piece to this sort of puzzle to help the student have the resources and the ability to learn the material in a way that was congruent with everyone else. In the classroom  there were many different facets to shuring  this student in particular all the things that they needed in order to be successful.  One by one, talking with folks within the department, understanding  myself how to plan forward how to think even semesters ahead, so that there were other additional entities on campus that could provide the student the resources they needed, and then translating that to my peers, when student went to engage within their classes, was, It's been a journey, and it's so ongoing like this is something that doesn't just end with one student. It's  has really expanded. The conversation within our department. So I'm I'm thankful because not only was it finding accessible software so that we could  communicate in differential equation.  It's understanding how we can ensure that learning outcomes are really the the fundamental of what the curricula is designed to provide a student with the skill.  and that there's not only one way where we assess  those learning outcomes can be, because there can be multiple ways that we achieve  together. So these these pieces have really, you know.  bolstered and reinforced a lot of my curricula experiences and sort of  pieces that I have thrive to integrate within not only biomedical engineering, but stem engineering broadly, but  making that a piece that's contagious to others as well. And I come from a discipline that's very assessment. Heavy  extremely, you know, viewed from an accreditor's standpoint.  Ensure that you're meeting learning outcomes for all students with programs.  So it has been  really,  thankful for the experience, not only for myself and all of the materials that I was able to revamp for this one particular student, now  more accessible for all my students.  So in that way, it's really sharing that experience with my peers so that they can begin to see how they can adjust or implement. And even if they don't necessarily have a student in this particular case that has is blind, they don't have a blind student in their classroom, aging in that broader conversation, so that we can  forward together. And so, you know, in sort of closing, and I'm happy to answer any questions. You  can't speak for Dr. Mars, but I like, I said. I know her lab pretty well, and in the way that our students engage with it. But for the Vme curricula, or any questions you might have. But I really do think, you know, and I'm thankful for the honor.  When I learned about it, I actually had to go for a walk because I thought I was. This is something that everyone should be doing in their job something we should be talking about all the time, how we can make curricula better for everyone. Not necessarily. When we're faced with  particularly, you know a challenging representation of how I can communicate these learning outcomes or this knowledge to a specific individual  so thankful for the opportunity to continue that that dialogue with everyone, really zoom, and and that's supported through Iepui and beyond.  like I mentioned, I worked at a couple of different universities, and I feel like this is this is a human pursuit. This is not an Iui or a pursuit. This is a collaborative effort that together, when we put our heads together, and we figure one thing out to to better the learning outcomes of one student. It's definitely  super excited as how we can continue that. And I'm very proud. I walk around sometimes, and I see some of our, whether it's a visually paired student or student in a wheelchair like Dr. Mars mentioned. If Ui or Indianapolis in general really does  augment the the experience. And I've been very proud to be part of this ecosystem in Indianapolis that can really bolster the options for those that might need adaptive educational pieces when they're at least within the academic confines of trying to achieve together. So so thank you, Mercedes, for this opportunity. Thank you for all the room that we're able to to come today and, like I mentioned, I'd be happy  questions if you have.  This is Dr. Miller.  and I have any questions.  Nielsen.  I'll make  so first of all, I wanna thank you, Dr. Miller. And even in Dr. Mars's absence, Dr. Mars, for your your stories about how you have supported students with disabilities. And just, you know the importance of being thought partners with aes, and the students to create that experience. And I was just really glad to kind of you say that this is.  you know, kind of part of the human experience, and this is something that every faculty member should be naturally, because that's not the experience.  you know, most senior universities of all faculty members. I think, like, sometimes there is a  there can be a disconnect around. You know what inclusive classes look like when we're thinking about accessibility. And a lot of that, I think.  stems from kind of a lack of  knowledge around what accessibility inclusion looks like. Because we haven't always talked about it in the same way that we talked about  inclusive practices, you know. In other aspects of faculty classroom preparation. And so I think it's important, because sometimes it can be add on, or additional, you know, responsibility or burden, rather than you know a part of being. And so how can we  elevate. So I guess now this is the question part. So how can we elevate this  philosophy  to faculty in all areas so that it becomes more of a a philosophy and a practice rather than you know, kind of like disjointed like some faculty, are more known to be you know, inclusive in this way versus others have to kind of learn like, how can we make this  philosophy for faculty?  Silly question? Thank you for the  for the question, really, and I don't know if I have a specific answer  that.  however, I do know. It takes  individual efforts to take selective effort. I think Dr. Mars, at the end of her presentation also mentioned  continuing to support policy efforts that  shape this as a community. So that's as a whole. So whether that's  policy making institutional levels. So continuing to advocate  there. But I recognize as an individual who also, I  big proponent for co-teaching or peer teaching, so that  you can learn from one another.  So I've had multiple instances since having the student  I do sit in on other  multi lectures and notice, you know, the the small things that each of us does as we present material, and whether that's not reading an equation.  whoever who's  just pointing to a slide, saying, I'll give you a minute to read this  and so, but then, not just noticing it, but then engaging in that conversation here to ensure that  there is recognition day by day in our sort of daily experience that you know when you are  excellent, that we were talking about this, I think we may have excluded a student when got to this point in the lecture because of Xyz and then revisiting, how can we? How can we make sure for the remainder of this semester that we're ensuring  very specific answer to your question. But I think it's maybe demonstrate some of those  smaller moments that we all internalize and continue to advocate that together, and we're happy to work together and call one another out if we're in this place where not making our our lectures and and please help you, I'm sticking to education, this realm  accessible for for everyone.  So there's there are large things. And then there are very small things. And I can. That's just one example that  Ed  be responsive? Can I just add optimum question. And then  so is there a way? As we think about Ctl, the center for teaching and learning  that we can  expand our reach or partner with steel. Like to.  I'm sure they already have some curriculum on, but even more like to, you know, to grade kind of some of these practices.  CTO is a great way of helping Ryan  absolutely. And and I think one of the the  best tools that I now employ routinely on canvas is accessibility checker.  It's just it's almost like my alarm clock to remind myself, what else can I be doing? And so to that question.  engaging the Ctl. In  maybe  exploring, visiting different departments on campus to ensure not just the accessibility checker on campus is being used. But  departments understand the different support systems that this Vto. And also provide as instructors for classes. And it's never a one time piece. You know, it's it's often a recurring.  And and as a faculty member that sat on different committees throughout my career to date  our undergraduate curriculum  meetings within each department mostly that are sort of the target for that definitely have a champion within each each department. I think some of that can spread.  Arlington.  It's  me.  Do you know, if much is going on in K. 12,  help students  and disabilities we're addressing. Yeah, I'm less informed in the K. 12 space. So I don't want to speak.  All I, the only anecdotes I have are those  good share and save them in my  I'm my name is Jonathan Stefan. I'm with aes you mentioned?  I think the word you use was cultivate  What was the word that you used  perfect.  and I Scott  allies, I think maybe something like a  how. How can we?  You have any  words of wisdom or suggestions for us  at Aes to to cultivate these kinds of  advocate Allies champions, maybe champion stuff. Yes, we got there.  So how do we sort around your observation and your experience? Are there suggestions you have for us to cultivate those  champions.  Yeah. And I like, I can. Only, you know, I guess I give my  perspective as someone that has that on an undergraduate  curriculum committee. There are graduate curriculum committees as well.  Department chairs, right? So the folks that are closest to the current.  Sometimes I feel, understand the the limitations and  advantageous pieces of curricula, and also, at least for my discipline.  Sort of accreditation. Assessment means so they really see, sort of from their vantage point all the pieces within the department in order to  liver quality, to their students. And there could be multiple programs. So I think, thinking creatively on engaging folks at that level would really, you know, resonate with them, so that if there are pieces that whether it's Aes or the Ctl. Or Atac, or other entities on campus can  plug into more. So  would really be at that level. Others are advisors. But our advisors, you know, they're they're definitely  good sources. So like maybe listening sessions with advisors to hear the stories, because they can have those one on one personal conversations with students which I don't think I would sort of be up here talking with you if I wasn't an advisor.  cause. I don't know if I would have had the time with the student one on one to understand  where I needed to meet  at that moment. So I don't think it. While it might not be in the job responsibility of the advisor to find the technology, or but I do think there's rich information that they gain that others within the department don't necessarily have  the access to you because they build a different type of relationship with the students.  Dr. Miller, I appreciate  being here and and being as transparent as you are about your own experiences and how you've navigated your decisions. You've made to work across community college to the larger the larger spaces, and also how you appreciate the humanity of people.  What situates with me is how you say you walk around and take it in.  you know. Take in what you see and what you what you're experiencing, what you understand about curriculum, what you understand about your own discipline.  and then those you work with within  a larger context, such as University and as the director of Aes, and the reasons why my  my desire is to hear storytelling right this, this, this actual piece of it right is that we will never know how you got there. If we didn't invite you to tell us right.  and then inviting you to tell us that I think about the years of work with you and the student you're actually speaking about, and also just the staff, you know, as a chair, right as an advisor as a chair. You're speaking out of different types of levels of higher education where decisions are made and things are impacted towards students.  So as we think about folks who write curriculum, think about different folks, we can possibly invite to the table as we continue to move towards more of an external office, right? Interacting with the very people we interact with on a regular basis without each other, knowing that as we continue to do that, and as we continue to think about what other programs it and brown baggings, we could have.  what what would you suggest when you think about the years you spent as the chair, working with your colleagues.  as an advisor and as a chair of biomedical engineering.  What did you discover as you were discovering things about the students.  What did you discover from working with your colleagues? That would be important for us to be thinking about as we're thinking about brown bed luncheons. Continual conversation around the community of practice.  I know it's a lot. I think you got. No. And there there are a couple of thank you for that question.  Summary, because there's so many different facets. And it's been it's been a journey. So, and I'm trying to condense it into a short period of time, one of the sort of  surprising pieces to me. I don't know why I was surprised at the time.  but the interest  of peer students  to engage their peers and helping them.  And the reason I bring that up and sort of zone in on that which could be a brown bag lunch by inviting students that have worked with other students in this situation as note takers, or  you both  aids auxiliary aids  so that they can share what their experiences have been, because I learned just as much from this the aids as I did the student during situations.  and some of these pieces really  just amplifies the respect in the room, everyone.  and it creates a an environment that you want to be a part of, because every student within  within the lab or and we've had many labs, you know, speaking of biology labs, we had electronic slabs, wet labs, organic slabs where we did break more things. You know all these labs that the student definitely engaged with. But students always stepped up  different ways, whether they were an aid or not. So I feel like that would be  one area that maybe  hasn't been explored enough to really learn from from the peer students. And they're the  better sources than students, right? They're they're the ones to to educate us for sure.  I think the others is just, you know.  maybe advisors, maybe department chairs.  starting with some leadership within the different colleges.  So learning and I think what I learned, and it took me a little bit was learning the cadence of understanding how I needed to sort of get my ducks in a row to ensure I was effective as an instructor.  and that was a heavy lift was not easy, and I had to make a lot of videos and in it  in  make sure that I was okay with my pacing in my videos, so that I  I had to say every thing that was on the slide, every equation  so understanding and level setting  my classroom was also something that I worked hard at.  So understanding the timeline and the timeframe, and that there does exist support if it's  if and we're talking very specifically about one  student situation. But I think this  it could be expanded more broadly for different  adaptive services that might be in.  Let's say, students.  nobody else  you wanna on Zoom has a question feel free to type it in. We're entering the chat.  not keep anyone any longer than they need to be  here. So if there's no other questions  in the chat or in person. Thank you so much for the opportunity.  Thanks for being a captive audience. It's in. Live.  appreciate everything with everyone.  We're an app  I've been to met some of my great colleagues at veteran for for students.  Yeah. So if you want to  everyone on zoom, there'll be a survey link coming your way. So please take the time to fill that out, so we can here  absolutely  later.  Also.